A Problem with Parelli

Excellent – thanks for writing this.

I always had a weird feeling too about them and you put it into words beautifully!

this video isn’t pretty – the horse obviously does not understand and I believe there are gentler ways to introduce the horse to the idea – I agree with you – a little pressure on the nose to introduce the concept and LOTS of praise = happily co-operative horse…I really missed the praise in this video and so did this horse…thanks for this article…

What a great way to get a discussion going on Parelli. You have presented so many of the main negative arguments about Parelli Natural Horsemanship in way that I just have to respond. It seems that you have had some casual contact with Parelli and natural horsemanship, but have never attended a Parelli clinic or been to a Parelli event where you have been a participant.

Parelli horsemanship is so far from being one rigid method that it is close to the other end of the scale. If you learn the various “horsenalities” they teach and how to handle each one you will see that.

The people who have trouble with Parelli horsemanship are people who have either had insufficient exposure to it, or who are unwilling to change themselves, and keep approaching their horses with the same old mind set.

Anyone who says that Linda is afraid of the horse in the video does not know Linda very well.

Thanks for being so opinionated. It’s a great way to start a conversation.

Seth,

haha, glad to be opinionated… and hopefully bring about more conversations. IMO, they are essential to any learning endeavor!

I have audited Parelli events, and am familiar with their ‘horsenality’ theories. I cannot help but connect the idea of attributing a personality to a horse based on their facial features, hair whorls, etc with also attributing a stereotype about a person based on their facial features, hair tendencies, etc. Actually, if I recall correctly that was food for some of the early ethnic cleansing and scientific ‘proof’ that certain people were inferior or superior by skull size and such. Truly though the scientific community as a whole would classify ‘horsenalities’ to the same realm as astrology, Chinese horoscope, reading tea leaves, etc. While people may believe in them and see some tendencies, there is no way to test and prove them as fact.

Any method could also claim that those who have not had success are simply inept in some fashion (i.e. unwilling to change) or haven’t had enough training, not just Parelli. A beautiful loop-hole? And finally to counter your mention of not knowing Linda Parelli well enough to know she is unafraid in the video… I have a question in response. Does knowing a person on a closer level help or hinder your ability to see their actions without prejudice? Can knowing the person more intimately cloud your judgement? You know the old saying of rose colored glasses…

I appreciate the conversation!

You really don’t know what you are talking about Erika. Horsenality has nothing to do with facial features and/or whorls…and, they are not a “one size fits all” sort of thing. It is simply a way to analyze horse’s innate/potential behavior based on many things (training, experience, what he/she was born with, level of spirit etc) ..and, it changes under differing circumstances…just like people’s behavior will. Parelli does not put horses “in a box” and that is what you seem to be thinking.

As for the video.. the portion, taken out of context, is, indeed ugly and could have been done differently but, that was filmed almost 7 years ago and Linda’s expertise has come a LONG way. There is much more to that video that the person purposely didn’t post because it explains what is going on (by the way, posting this video is a violation of copyright laws I might add.) I don’t see anyone fussing over the behavior of so many other “professionals” who treat horses far worse at clinics or on film.

I am not going to say that Parelli is the end all and be all of horse training but it isn’t fair to knock something so hard without knowing more about it. There are horrible horse training stories attributed to the best training methods and there are wonderful stories found from the worst of training methods. Use what works for you but don’t slam other’s view and opinions.

Jeannie

Jeanne,

You are correct about one point, I confused the Parelli’s horsenality with the technique which was going around largely from 2001-2004? in which horse personality traits were being pointed out by the horse’s hair whorls and head shape. Call it a weakness of evening writing? My apologies for the error.

As for the other points… the idea that the Parelli’s are not putting the horse in a box by presenting a judgement on the horse’s personality period is proof against that call. Many people put heavy weight in horoscopes/signs/etc, but would it be fair of me to judge what type of person you are based on your astrological sign? Would I be putting you in a box? I know that I would certainly feel trapped in if everyone were to judge me based on certain criteria 100% of the time. How does that allow for growth if you already ‘know’ my potential and the way in which I think, act or react? The right-brain / left-brain and intro-vert / extro-vert argument I have a difficult time swallowing. Certainly it is an easy sell. Why? Because people can relate to it. You point out x and y traits and give them a name and if someone feels like they have those traits they say, “a ha! That must be what I am!” because humans love to label and identify things with names. We put names on everything… even if it hinders rather than helps us. In some ways it is what helps us to organize and make sense of our world. It can also keep us from seeing the trees for the forest. It can blind us from seeing more detail by assuming that a maple tree is always a maple tree. But, I digress.
I do not doubt that Linda has grown over that 7 years. Simply working with horses for that period of time requires growth and change. Regardless, as a professional this is one thing that you risk – critique, public or private. Anyone who puts themselves out for others to see does just that. I do not expect everyone who reads my blog to agree with me or to even enjoy the blog, and it has been my own experience that trying to please people only hurts you in the end and reduces the quality and value of your work. I won’t agree that Linda has grown to a place of perfection over that 7 years, or that I approve of her anymore now than I did when I was first exposed to her work alongside Pat. If you look hard enough you will certainly find people critiquing most anyone. Public opinion isn’t always correct. A million people can be wrong… it is what makes fads and decides popularity contests. Think back to what seemed important in high school, does it still seem important? Probably not, but why was it so pressing for you at the time?
Another point about being critiqued. It is an invaluable tool for improvement. Some of the greatest people do not shy away from critiques but rather embrace them. There were no personal attacks towards Linda in my post, simply my observations. Nothing a person does in life is always perfect, and critiques can help us if we choose to use them. It is through isolation of ideas that we stop moving forward and stagnate.
If my own opinion came off as a slam, then so be it I guess. Is my own opinion of any less value than another person’s just because I am not in support? No, and that is the beauty of living in a Democratic nation (for me at least), rather than a nation such as China where my opinion might very well be blind-sided if it is out of alignment with that of the controlling interest’s.

Cheers,
Erica K.

Hi Erika~
A much more well presented response. Thank you.

I still don’t think you understand the horsenality thing….it is actually quite helpful in knowing how to react to specific behavior. It is not at all stagnant and a horse can flip back and forth along the spectrum in the flash of a second. Yes, people like to label things but, if those labels are used as a tool while not “canning” a horse, then where is the harm? If you have children, you know that you would deal with a child very differently depending on whether he was tired, sick, upset, distracted, exuberant, etc. It is the same sort of thing with the horsenality theory. Horses don’t always respond in ways we anticipate so we all must adjust accordingly. PNH does address this and doesn’t profile the horse and set his nature in stone.

I agree, there is no perfect horseman out there though some would like to claim that title. We are all in this learning together. Pat credits numerous horseman in his path of learning and Linda has been actively taking lessons with Walter Zettl (sorry, probably didn’t spell his name correctly) to correct lots of problems in her riding and horsemanship.

Criticism is important and anyone in the spotlight, is indeed held to a higher standard. I think it’s fair to criticize but empty criticism only incites polarity. I’d rather discuss “what could have been done differently” rather than…oh, they/their methods are weird/I don’t like them. I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and, it makes for lively blogging….afterall, it *is* your website and you can post what you will.

I don’t think your post really came off as a slam but, it’s always easier to point and complain than it is to try to understand other methods. I believe they all can be helpful at some point in our life’s journey.

Jeannie

Jeanne,

You’re welcome.

I do get that the horsenality labels are changeable, but then if they are being redefined why give them at all? The issue I see is that by giving a label at all it brings us closer to making assumptions. Not only that, but often what is going on with the horse is our own issue anyways and we are projecting. The brain likes to skip over ‘small details’ and labels are one way of doing that. When we see a red cup it is only a red cup, but if we look closer at the details there are more colors in that cup than just red, various shades of red along with the reflected colors of objects nearby. But if we only say “the cup is red” that is all we will see.

I understand why the Parelli’s use this system, because they are trying to wholesale teach something which is an art as something which is merely actions and tact (or saavy). It is a difficult line to walk.

In the last two paragraphs I made my own observations, but also remarked about different things which could have been done. The beginning of the post I made a sweeping introduction about my initial impressions of Pat’s methods, which were unspecific feelings, though later I went on to sum up just what those feelings were once I had gained enough education to put those feelings into words as far as horsemanship goes. Did you read through the whole post?

Cheers,
Erica K.

Yes, I read the whole article.

Horsemanship is certainly an art and going through any packaged program won’t make one a horseman…but, it is the first step for many. I applaud all of the horseman in all disciplines who try their best to teach people. Horses know what they know…we need to learn from them and, like it or not, the Parellis have developed some good tools for the average person to work with. What they may call “Savvy” is simply “good horsemanship” to most. Do they make mistakes? Yep..don’t we all? I could do without the marketing hype but I suppose they need to make a living! lol

Anyway, I don’t want to start a debate about what qualifies “good horsemanship” or not…

By the way…you have a really nice site here. Good writing, great photos…glad I stumbled across it.

Jeannie

I wish sometimes that the top clinicians would stop and tell their audience that there is more, but in a way I think that might make people feel like the person is disqualifying themselves. Something like, “this is a beginning, but horsemanship itself is an art and I am merely helping you learn how to paint by number right now…” haha, I just don’t see that happening too soon though.

I am glad you like my blog, I’ve enjoyed our discussion and am happy to have you here.

Cheers,
Erica K.

I certainly can understand your uneasiness with the Parelli method. There certainly are many folks out there that are in danger of getting hurt by their horses. I’ve witnessed many who have started working with Parelli methods and most of them never really continue through to an adequate level and many think they know what their doing but they’ve never studied under the professional tutelage of a certified Parelli instructor. I have to admit, my experiences watching Linda work with horses has left me a bit cold as well. However, I have seen many who have taken the Parelli method seriously and not only work with their horses multiple times per week over long period of time, but they also go to clinics and let their technique be criticized and corrected by an experienced instructor. For me, it was at those 3 – 5 day clinics that my learning and subsequent progress soared. I have since been able to take dangerous horses and transform them into safe mounts for riders of all experience levels. However, horses are an every changing being, as I’m sure you are well aware, and the behavior of a new owner could make a safe and bullet proof horse into a dangerous animal. So, I guess what I am saying is, don’t judge the Parelli method by the dilettantes who dabble in it or Linda who because she has the public’s ear because of her husband’s talents expounds like an expert. The stuff really works if you work at it and are willing to be corrected by those who can do, like my instructor, 5 star teacher, David Lichman. I’ve trained horses for over 35 years and I’ve gotten my best results since I began following Pat Parelli’s consolidation of the knowledge of hundreds of great horsemen.

I’m glad to hear you’ve had success with the Parelli method Joe.

Totally agree with you. I learned to ride with a woman who had been doing natural for 20+ years and she was great. most of her stuff was based off monty roberts, but with more convetional methods. It worked well and she made sure that the horse and rider always had a great, safe bond. I ride my own horse in the ‘normal’ conventional way, and it is my own personal belief that if you treat the horse right then you should have that bond with them, no matter whether you are ‘natural’ or not. I agree that Parelli’s methods, in general, are fostering the horse being in control of the partnership, and when the rider or trainer is already scared, and the horse had a stubborn, mean or disobediant streak in them, like most horses do, this doesn’t often turn out well. I give kudos to those that have managed to get horses working well using parelli, as they need to be confident and in control the whole time.

I would just like to say that I agree with you Erica, most especially about the marketing aspect of the Parellis. I think it is very dangerous to mass market a skill level & art form that takes a life journey to accomplish into something resembling a (very expensive!) paint by numbers package. I feel the same way about the Parellis as John Lyons, Clinton Anderson & on & on & ON that these people have taken very lucrative advantage of Joe Public Rider’s weakness in believing that many years of experience, hard work and thoughtful study can be bought in a weekend. I don’t doubt that these individuals themselves have talent and experience but the idea that you can package it & mass produce it I frankly find offensive and irresponsible & totally lacking in integrity. I am most offended on behalf of the horses who have no option but to become the ultimate trick ponies left with no dignity & no expectations. That said, I would be first to say that this sort of behaviour can be found in all disciplines, it’s just that the ‘natural gurus’ have done it on such a huge scale. I would also like to add that without exception every Parelli method trained horse I have ever met feels more programmed (a la Pavlov!) to me than trained (& they’re often kind of a pain to live with!)

PS that video made me just about sick to my stomach & by the time I hit send on this post I am going to be mad as hell! “Horse-man-shit” is right!

I didn’t watch this video. But I had a booth across from the Parelli’s booth one year at the World Equitana. I watched his video at his booth, where i was dismayed to see him galloping a horse up behind a horse trailer being pulled by a pickup truck, and leap his horse into the trailer, all while riding it bridleless and bareback. A feat no doubt!, but who does that? Why? I later went and watched his demo, and his horses circled around him behind his back, with apparent distrust? their ears pinned tightly in angry pissyness. I would not argue with his ability, but am not impressed by him. Salesmanship, yes. He never gives credits to the old Vaquero traditions… he claims to be the originator of “natural” horsemanship, forcing those who know better, to find another term. The old vaquero type horsemen will quietly give all due credit to their predecessors, and will tell you they will help you, but do not know it all, far from it. That is what I am comfortable with, and trust. One of my favorite local trainers in my area, has a Parelli background, and she uses it with dignity and wisdom, I am very impressed… so we can learn from the right things anyone puts out there, as well as from the wrong things, as we recognize them. Happy Trails.

I also have a close friend who uses some of the Parelli ideas – with a great deal of tact and talent – combined with common sense and a lot of respect for her horses and has great results. For me, she is an exception and I know there are more out there, thank goodness!

I watched the video and it only confused me. What was she trying to get that horse to DO? If I couldn’t figure it out, what chance did the horse have?

Beth, those were my same sentiments – for the life of me I couldn’t discern her direct intentions without listening to commentary.

Wow! folks are still discussing this clip! There is about an hour of footage with explanation in the level 1 dvd set of this particular horse/session. It made me uncomfortable to watch and I agree that there are probably better ways to have worked on this but…basically, this horse is quite dominant and distracted. He kept barging into Linda’s space and she was (not too effectively) working on getting his attention and getting him out of her space. Notice how he keeps trying to walk over her and isn’t even caring about her futile flicks of the rope. She wanted to get him at the end of the rope and to basically stand in one place. He more or less does at the end ..then she continues to make him focus on her by backing him at the end of the rope. I think it was a poor video to put in a level one dvd set as it shows Linda in a bit over her head in the way she deals with this particular horse. She ends up getting the desired results but I, personally, think she would have gotten further, faster by moving the horse’s feet more with lots of changes of direction. The last think I would want to do with a distracted, bargy horse is to try to keep him still (but, keeping him out of MY space would be important)

There are difficult videos to watch of all trainers. I just saw one from another trainer that disturbed me even more than this one…but, sometimes drastic measures need to be taken. Seeing a 3 minute clip doesn’t tell the whole story…..I think we all need to have some grace while watching others work with horses. Horses are amazing animals and great horses have been trained with rotten trainers just as rotten horses have been turned out by great trainers! Use what works for your particular situation and learn from all you see.

Just thought I would give my two cents worth. I got my first ride at 4 years old and have not given up yet at 62. I have had no formal training or lessons.I have fallen off, been dumped, trampled, kicked and bitten. I have run a successful breeding program, shown my own horses and won against pro trainers. Trained my horses to saddle and cart. Those are my qualifications for saying that of all the clinicians I have seen in person, watched videos of, or spoken to Parelli is the biggest blowhard, The dumbest horseman and the champion of B.S.. His smarts are in marketing – getting people to pay for his line of horse puckey. I will not consider owning a horse “trained” by Parelli’s methods no matter what their bloodlines. Virtually every one I have met is an accident waiting to happen. They have no respect for humans. Would you if you were an equal partner? They know not much that is of value to a show rider, trail rider, or cowboy.
Sorry, but Parelli and Parelli practioners are given a wide berth by me.

I am in complete agreement and too find myself veering away from those horses trained with Parelli methods. I don’t think it is appropriate to ‘play games’ with a horse who is obviously dominating it’s play partner or to consider tack-less riding the epitome of horsemanship. Actually with experience and education comes the realization that giving those things up is not evolution but rather a way of skipping out on mastering some of the most difficult and complicated forms of communication – through the rider’s hands, seat and legs – because it is unnatural and generally against our human habits.

Welcome to the blog “Villen”